Parliamentary Committee Notes: Summary of August 16, 2022 Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security (SECU) meeting
On Tuesday, August 16, 2022, the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security (SECU) resumed their study on Allegations of Political Interference in the 2020 Nova Scotia Mass Murder Investigation. During the first panel, the committee heard from officials from the Department of Justice, while in the second panel, four members of the RCMP provided testimony.
First Panel – Department of Justice Officials (François Daigle, Deputy Minister of Justice and Deputy Attorney General of Canada and Owen Rees, Acting Assistant Deputy Attorney General)
Summary being prepared by Public Safety Parliamentary Affairs.
Second Panel – RCMP Officials (Alison Whelan, Chief, Strategic Policy and External Relations Officer; Jolene Bradley, Director General, National Communications Services; Chief Superintendent Darren Campbell, Criminal Operations Officer, J Division, Royal Canadian Mounted Police, New Brunswick; and, Lia Scanlan, Director Strategic Communications Unit)
The four RCMP officials each delivered opening remarks.
Elements Covered in Questions from Parties
CPC questions touched on the following elements:
- Whether C/Supt. Campbell had received any legal advice from the Department of Justice on proactively or reactively answering questions.
- An email dated April 23, 2020, in which Commissioner Lucki stated that the government of Canada and the Minister of Public Safety anxiously awaiting information about firearms used.
- The impact on the ongoing investigations of releasing the firearms information.
- Consultations with the Serious Incident Response Team (SIRT) and them granting permission to internally share information on the firearms.
- The appropriateness of releasing information on the firearms to the Minister of Public Safety.
- C/Supt Campbell’s testimony that he took notes on the April 28, 2020 call with senior RCMP officials in Ottawa because he thought it could be problematic.
- The wording used by the Commissioner in relation to her commitment to the Minister of Public Safety and Prime Minister that information on the firearms used would be released.
- The topics covered in the April 28, 2020 call with senior RCMP officials in Ottawa and how much of the call was devoted to the release of information on the firearms.
- Communication with senior government officials.
- The nature of the political pressure the Commissioner was under to disregard the SIRT directive to keep internally, the information on the firearms.
- Discussions between Lia Scanlan and Dan Brien (RCMP NHQ).
- Direction from RCMP in Ottawa to disclose details on the firearms.
- The accuracy of C/Supt. Campbell’s notes.
- Whether the Commissioner stated on April 28, 2020, that she promised the Minister that she’d provide information on the firearms.
LPC questions touched on the following elements:
- Communication with senior government officials.
- Testimony provided to SECU by Minister Blair and Commissioner Lucki regarding the release of information on the firearms.
- How and when information on the firearms was disclosed to the public.
- The nature of the April 28, 2020 call between RCMP officials in Ottawa and those in Nova Scotia.
- The ATIP process.
- Whether the Commissioner received direction from Minister Blair, or any other political officer, to release any of the information and the sense of pressure to release information on the firearms.
- Ensuring the public understands the RCMP’s work was not compromised.
BQ questions touched on the following elements:
- Whether the Commissioner understood the scope/risk of asking for information on the firearms to be released and how this could impact the ongoing investigations.
- The Commissioner’s reaction to advice that the information not be released and whether the Commissioner attempted to rebuke arguments against releasing the information.
- The scope of the Commissioner’s decision to release the firearms information and what should or should not be disclosed during an investigation.
NDP questions touched on the following elements:
- The process for taking hand-written notes.
- Whether C/Supt. Campbell knew that his notes from the April 28, 2020 call with RCMP officials in Ottawa would carry such significance.
- Whether the release of information on the firearms used is seen as an operational directive or a communication directive.
- If RCMP officials in Nova Scotia sought clarification and their reaction to the Commissioner stating that the release of the firearms information was connected to pending gun control legislation.
- Improvements for section 5(1) of the RCMP Act.
A CPC member moved the following motion, “Pursuant to standing order 108(2), the committee hold a three-hour meeting on the allegations of political influence in the 2020 Nova Scotia mass murder investigation study, including 30 minutes of committee business, no later than September 16, 2022, to hear from the following witnesses:
- Zita Astravas, Chief of Staff to the Minister of Emergency Preparedness;
- Felix Cacchione, Director of Nova Scotia Serious Incident Response Team;
- Ken MacKillop, Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Communications and Consultations, Privy Council Office;
- Dan Brien, Director of Media Relations, RCMP;
- Cindy Bayers, Director of Strategic Communications, RCMP.
And that the calendars and phone logs from April 18, 2020 to April 22, 2020, of the Minister of Emergency Preparedness, and his Deputy Minister, and his Chief of Staff, be provided prior to the meeting.”
The LPC subsequently moved an amendment; however, debate ended following the adoption of a motion to adjourn debate. As such, the motion was not passed.
In relation to their study, a motion from the CPC (to be verified against the committee transcript) was adopted: “That the committee meet to discuss committee business between September 19 and September 30, 2022 to deal with the question of how to move forward with this study.”
One follow-up is anticipated:
- C/Supt. Campbell stated that he has emails from the Commissioner, recognizing his efforts during an April 24, 2020 press conference. In this email, Commissioner Lucki noted that Minister Blair wanted to express his thanks for the information provided by Chief Superintendent Campbell to the public.
- It was requested that these emails be provided to the committee.
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